Power of the Blues: An Interview with Saiichi Sugiyama

by Tom Watson

Most guitar collectors, especially those who collect Fender Stratocasters, will recognize the name Saiichi Sugiyama from his consulting work on both the 1999 and recent 2004 Eric Clapton Christie's Crossroads Auction catalogs. Sugiyama is a library of knowledge and information about both Fender and Gibson guitars.

What most collectors might not know about Sugiyama is that he also plays the blues.

Never mind the fact that he was born and raised in Tokyo, Japan. Ask the likes of Eric Clapton, John Mayall or Jonny Lang: The Mississippi Delta isn't a place on the map, it's a region of the heart.

Sugiyama now lives in England, based in Surrey. Eric Clapton territory. Coincidence, considering it was a Clapton concert at the Buddokan that served as the catalyst for Sugiyama's lifelong dedication to the blues. Having worked the British blues scene for 15 years, Saiichi Sugiyama doesn't just play the blues. He's a bluesman.

2004 has proved to be a landmark year for Strat collectors. With his work on the Christie's Crossroads Auction catalog and the July release of his second album, "So Am I", it's also been a landmark year for Saiichi Sugiyama.

Tom Watson for the Strat Collector News Desk: The sixties. Born and raised in downtown Tokyo. Tell me about the early years.

Saiichi Sugiyama: I had a happy childhood, went to a regular school. As a child I was more into art and books than music. My parents loved American music - my father, who was a lawyer, listened to Glenn Miller and Sil Austin, along with Chopin and Mozart, and my mother's favorite singer was Nat King Cole.

SCND: First guitar in 1972, age 12 (Yamaha acoustic). Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young an early influence. CSNY leads to the Stephen Sills track, "Go Back Home", on which Eric Clapton plays guitar. By the age of 13 you've discovered the Bluesbreakers album with Clapton, and you dig deeper into the blues - the Kings (BB, Freddie and Albert) and eventually Howlin' Wolf and Muddy Waters. Yet, on your website, I see a photo of what's probably you and your mother. Looks traditional. What was it about the blues that spoke to you so strongly, and how did your family view this interest?

Saiichi: That photo was in a set-up that was as traditionally Japanese as you would ever get in modern Japan! I was still in kindergarten in that picture. The music kicked in at age 12; the mystery of closing my eyes and tripping somewhere new with just the music was so pure and totally addictive, and the anger at growing up in a conformist Japan and the longing for girlfriends poured oil onto the blues fire.

SCND: 1975. You're 15. You see an Eric Clapton concert at the Buddokan. Immediately after, still living in Tokyo, you form your first blues band. What happened to you that night at the Buddokan?

Saiichi: What you would expect from a 15 year old who moves on from listening to that stuff on vinyl on a domestic Sony hi-fi to being exposed to a full blast from the PA with the real live thing moving on the stage. I was moved to the point of being almost distraught. I went straight into daydreams after that for days. It was my first real rock concert. But not just any concert - a Clapton concert.

I chose to go, queue up for hours, spend a small fortune buying the ticket and be robbed by older boys at the gig, because I missed seeing Clapton the year before [1974 tour]. So, it wasn’t like I just happened to walk into the situation. I was an avid student of his playing before the Buddokan gig, had John Mayall, Cream and Dominoes albums, as well as many bootlegs of Clapton. I only had an acoustic guitar, though. But it was like the difference between listening to Robert Johnson on a record and going to a juke joint where he played; it was the reality of it all that hit me.

The atmosphere of the show was electric – different from other Japanese “rock” gigs that I had been to before that time (I started going to them when I was 12). I was probably already trapped by the power of music by then, but the Clapton concert made the trap a lot harder to break away from. The 15-year-old me made a very special effort to get there because it was Clapton, the blues guitarist, who was my hero.

SCND: When did you get your first electric guitar? What model?

Saiichi: A 1961 Gibson SG Les Paul Junior, also at the age 15.

SCND: Music training. Formal instruction? Self-taught?

Saiichi: Just my ears, dropping the needle at the right part of the LP till it was unplayable, binoculars at gigs, sitting at cinemas days on end watching the same films many times over to catch the shape of “that chord”, and self-recording to check I got it right. The usual stuff.

SCND: A few years later you spend some time in California. Why? What did you do there?

Saiichi: I wanted more than what was then available in the Japanese music scene and it was my chance to get exposed to the real thing. Bought a guitar or two and just played and played with local guys.

SCND: In 1980, age 19 or 20, you move to Surrey, England. Why?

Saiichi: The move to England was because of the “Beatle” factor. I was going through my Beatles phase, and as McCartney got busted in Tokyo and his gigs got cancelled I thought I would catch their music in London. I came over for three weeks, which became three months, and three years, and is now almost a quarter of a century!

I lived off handouts from my parents - who trusted that I would eventually do something to stand on my own feet - for a few years. That sort of unconditional support made me think that I could not be doing this for the rest of my life. So, I got into the family trade of lawyering. My reasoning was that if I played music all the time I would have to take all the gigs that came my way just to survive, even those that made me feel I was compromising myself. But if I got a well-paid day job I would be able to get all the equipment I needed and only play the music that I really wanted to.

The double-life lasted for some years, but it was hard to simultaneously work two demanding jobs and maintain the level of skills and motivation needed for both. So, now I do a bit of consulting legal work on the side to keep me going and hope that I get a break before it breaks me and I have to be out on the street.

SCND: How did your family react? Did you move there alone? Why Surrey in particular - a Clapton connection?

Saiichi: They were cool. Yes, I was alone. The college in South London that I enrolled at allocated me a dig in Surrey. It was just a coincidence. I had lost interest in Clapton’s music at that time. I thought he was growing into something that I didn’t quite understand, an Oklahoman country singer or something. I didn’t associate him with Surrey in my mind because of that. In fact, I was surprised to find out later that he was still living in Surrey. At that time, I was more into the Merseyside-style songwriting. So, had I been thinking of my musical influences, I would have ended up in Liverpool instead.

SCND: You've worked the English blues circuit for quite some time. What keeps you going?

Saiichi: It’s more like 15 years, as I was just writing initially when I got here. What keeps me going is the hope that one day I'll get that big break.

SCND: What's your idea of "the big break?"

Saiichi: Selling enough records to live off the royalties and make enough profit from my gigs to sustain me. Not asking much, or am I? It would also be nice to get one of my songs covered by a young band that sells millions of copies of it so that I don’t have to worry about the rent for a little while.

SCND: Married? Children?

Saiichi: Yes, all that.

SNCD: In 1994 you record a self-titled CD. The electric guitars you use are two Fender Custom Shop Strats built by J.W. Black. Were they similar to the EC Signature models of that period?

Saiichi: My interest in Clapton got rekindled when I accidentally saw a South Bank Show TV documentary on Clapton in the late eighties, when he seemed to be playing for real again. So, I trotted along to the Royal Albert Hall, which happened to be a 15-minute walk from where I lived at the time in 1989, bought a ticket from a tout, having waited for the show to start (so that I could get it on the cheap), and I was shocked to find that the guy was having an Indian summer. Sober and absolutely on form.

I noticed he was playing a strange-looking Strat and an amp with a “Soldano” logo on it. So, I started my quest for that sound. I wasn’t at all into the eighties finger-tapping Van Halen-style guitars – so didn’t know what the Elite Strat or Soldano was all about. I was still playing my Les Paul in those days, but I thought I could do with the grit in the Clapton guitar.

Nobody had heard about the Clapton model in London, let alone had one in stock at that time, but I tracked down one of the early production Clapton Strats in Tokyo and eventually got it. I loved the ability to overdrive a Strat from the guitar knob; but having been a strictly vintage guy previously, I was not entirely happy with the plastic feel of the Clapton model.

Then I saw that the guitar Clapton was playing at the Albert Hall the following year, 1990, definitely had a nitrocellulose finish. You could tell from the way the paint sank into the wood, and also the way it was scraping off at the back. So, I sent a fax to John Page saying that I wanted a custom Clapton Strat built for me which combined the fifties-style tonewood with a thin coat of nitrocellulose finish and the active circuit. I said they must be able to do it because I saw Clapton’s guitar was like that.

I got a reply from John Page saying that he would not be able to tell me the exact specs of Clapton’s guitar, but that he would build me a guitar to the exact specs, and he nominated Jay Black, who was building for Eric at the time. I said that was great but I wanted them to be sure that they put the sound quality of the wood ahead of the cosmetics. I asked for a pair because I needed a spare that would match up. I chose pewter and black. They were eventually delivered through the Custom Shop A&R at Nomis Studios in West London, and the Custom Shop gave me serial numbers 001 and 002, which I felt a bit embarrassed about.

I loved the sound of both guitars, and they responded to my playing well, getting better and better as I rotated and played them regularly. Interestingly, however, over time the two guitars developed quite differently, the pewter 001 being brighter and louder with a clubbier feel higher up the neck, while the black 002 has a darker tone and better sustain with a quicker neck. Eventually, 002 became my main guitar, and I played most of my 1994 album with it. I loved the tonal edge of 001, but, not least because of the neck shape, it was confined to rhythm parts.

It got to a point where the two guitars sounded so different that 001 could no longer serve as a spare on gigs. So, I decided to have built a replacement for 002 around 1995. This time I traveled to the Custom Shop and saw John Grunder and Jay personally, taking 002 with me. We discussed a guitar that would have the neck shape and sustain of 002, but with slightly brighter harmonics. I was impressed by Jay’s questioning of my tonal requirements. He said people mean different things by expressions like “brightness”. It was the first time that I could discuss wood sound intelligibly with a maker.

Jay took measurements off 002, tapped it and said he would make the guitar. I wanted a finish that Clapton didn’t have and chose anthracite – somewhere between black and pewter. I sent BMW touch-up paint as a sample to Jay from London. When the guitar was delivered, it had a 003 serial number. It was a great guitar; 001 is with a Japanese collector now.

SCND: Photos of you performing since 1994 show you with a Les Paul and a Firebird. What are your main stage instruments now?

Saiichi: I started missing the way Gibsons sang right up the neck beyond the 12th fret. It’s not quite the same with Fenders: mid-range boost can only bring up what the wood has in the first place. I went back to Gibsons in a big way from around 1997, and my main instrument has been a Les Paul with a straight-grain plain top. I am also a sucker for that mahogany sound and always loved the rich tone that you hear on the early '68 live Cream tracks, Santana’s "Samba Pati", etc.

I found this great-sounding SG cheaply and started using it a lot. It’s so light and lovely, but because of the tremolo/tailpiece construction strings kept on popping out. So, I got Mark Willmott to strip off the tremolo and drill holes in the tailpiece to hold the strings a la Cream style, which increased the tension. I was also having a problem with the tuning drifting as I held chords, which I had put down to that horrible tremolo unit. But not only did it not disappear after the tremolo's removal, it got worse. The strings drifted out of tune as I played, but when my left hand was off the neck they got back in tune – I called it the “rubber neck” problem.

I sought advice and found that it really had to do with the stability of the wood: due to the construction of the sixties SGs, unless you got a really straight-grain neck, the neck moved sideways as you played it. I tried a number of SGs from the period, and they were the same. I asked Alan Rogan - who techs for, among others, AC/DC, who use SGs a lot - how they coped, and I ended up buying his Firebird I, which had a through-neck and was as solid as a rock. So long as you tack the body under your arm to balance it, and ride the tone pot carefully, the Firebird gives a great mahogany tone that works well with old Marshalls, and I have played it on stage a lot since.

SCND: You assisted with the instrument research for the 1999 and 2004 Eric Clapton Christie's Auction catalogs How did this come about?

Saiichi: I once ended up buying a fake vintage Gibson. I took it to my friend and the then Christie’s guitar consultant, Richard Chapman, for him to do a valuation paper so that I could get my money back. This was early 1999 and Richard was working on Eric’s auction stock at the time.

Richard is one of the most knowledgeable people when it comes to vintage Gibsons, but I knew a fair bit about Clapton Signature models through my earlier encounters with the Fender Custom Shop. I pointed out a few things to the people at Christie’s South Kensington office and ended up getting on board as a member of the catalog production team. This time, unfortunately, Richard is not involved in the sale. He is completely occupied with his playing and recording at the moment.

Richard is a totally unique and amazing player, and what he is playing now is an extremely musical, in fact soulful, fusion of acoustic jazz and classical styles. He was dubbed by NME as the brightest hope of the British guitar scene in the early seventies but kept out of the limelight because of his uncompromising stance on music. People such as John McLaughlin paid compliments to Richard, and he was invited to join Genesis but he did not want to sell out.

There are many players who are technically accomplished in the blues genre, but I come from a blues background and I want hear the emotions, the soul, and not the technique. His current recording, supported by the great English bass player, Paul Morgan, which hopefully will come out on a major label soon, totally knocked me out with its beauty, simplicity and soulfulness.

SCND: Eric Clapton. In 2002 an Eric Clapton Cream-period tribute CD is released in Japan on which you perform three tracks – "Sunshine of Your Love" (title track), "White Room" and "Politician". You're joined on those tracks by Pete Brown, lyricist for several original Cream tunes. You do a number of Clapton covers in your live performances - in addition to a variety of other music and originals. Why does Clapton continue to be such an inspiration?

Saiichi: He is out there still doing it. Regardless of whatever criticism that you can make of the man, which is easy because he is in the public gaze, he can, on a good night, still deliver the goods. That commands respect.

That Japanese CD came about in a roundabout way. Since the 1999 auction, I have had a fair few writing gigs from the Japanese guitar press as someone who is in England and has known about Clapton’s gear over the years. I was at the office of this Japanese publisher who wanted to do a Cream special. He managed to catch me while I was in Tokyo to discuss a writing gig on Cream’s gear. He was saying he also wanted some interviews, and I mentioned that I had been working with Pete Brown, playing and writing with him, so I could organize an interview. I happened to have a tape of my last gig in my Walkman, which had Pete on it singing. So, I played it for him to tell him that Pete was still very much an active force in the business.

I play my originals exclusively at my gigs, but when Pete is with me (he sings backing vocals and plays percussion for me) I ask him to sing a few Cream numbers. That is because he wrote them, I was obviously brought up on them, and they are just great songs. Well, it is cool to be able to introduce “White Room” or “Politician” on stage by saying, “We’ll do a song that was written by one of my band members!” And it does please the crowd, of course.

So, I was playing this tape for the editor and apparently the record-section guy heard this music next door. I then got a call from the record-section guy saying that he was doing a compilation of Cream covers by Japanese artists and would I allow them to include Pete’s tracks from my live tape that he overheard. That was a bit tricky because Pete hadn’t even heard the tape and it was just a DAT left to run for logging the gig!

I rang Pete from Tokyo and he said he would rather go into the studio and cut the tracks properly. I was worried that he might not want to put a record out with Cream numbers in his name, but he was okay about it and hence it was billed as the “Saiichi Sugiyama Band with Pete Brown”. Malcom Bruce, Jack Bruce's son, was in my band at the time also, playing keyboard, and the Japanese record company was overjoyed with the all-star cast. It was recorded over two days with our live arrangement, and we are happy with the result for what it is. Unfortunately, the album is not available outside Japan as yet, but you can order it from Amazon Japan via my website.

SCND: A new CD titled, "So Am I". Tell me about it.

Saiichi: I met Pete [Brown] a few years ago through David Hadley-Ray, my bass player, and he began sitting in at my gigs. We then progressed to Pete writing lyrics for my songs, and the Japanese Cream-tribute project came along. After that, we went into the studio to record an album of my original songs, a good part of which Pete wrote lyrics for. We co-produced the session and I was fortunate enough to have Clem Clemson (Coliseum) and Zoot Money (ex-New Animals) backing me, as well as Malcom Bruce and David Hadley. Henry Spinetti was booked to drum for us but the studio dates crashed with the Roger Chapman tour and he was unable to do it. Henry Lowther came in and put down some great horn parts, and Ben Matthews of Thunder, who engineered for us, also made a cameo appearance playing a double lead guitar with me.

It is a songwriter’s album rather than a blues album, although there is no shortage of guitar solos. Some of the songs on the album are quite personal and it covers a whole spectrum of emotions and music styles. It was released in Japan on Jeff Sato’s new label on 20 July.

SCND: You have a thing for Marshall amps and were involved in the Ampaholics project?

Saiichi: Yes, I think that amps are as important a part of the sound as the guitar, if not more important. I do have a soft spot for the sound of aluminum-chassis Marshalls with big valves from the mid-60s. Paul of Ampaholics is a good friend of mine who lives locally, and I was honored to be asked by him to demonstrate his amp collection for his CD project. He sells his vintage amps to some serious players in the business and he could have asked any one of them.

It was interesting to play all those different amps, but in the end, I think what comes out of the cabinet depends on the condition of the amp as much as the circuitry or the badge on it, and above all what is in the player’s fingers. It’s interesting that a few other people demonstrated the same amps on the CD, also using Paul’s 1959 Strat, and what came out of the amp was so vastly different.

SCND: Do you collect guitars? If so, what do you have? What guitars would be in your "dream collection"?

Saiichi: I buy guitars that I need for my work. I have three Gibson electrics, two Strats, three flat-tops of varying sizes, one classical guitar, and one bass. I rotate my guitars so that they all get used for work; but 10 guitars might still make me a collector. When I am recording, I hire in guitars that I cannot justify owning, such as a Dobro, an electric 12, a flat-top 12, a short-scale electric, a Gretsch, etc., because they will not get daily use out of me.

My dream collection would include all of those guitars that I have encountered in my playing life that keep coming back to haunt me. There was a beaten-up Gold Top Les Paul in Tokyo that I played when I was 17 that sounded so good; a '57 Strat that I owned when I was 16 which had just such perfect “in-between the bridge/middle” sound - probably my ears were better then; an old herringbone D-28 with a hole in it that I tried at Norm's few years ago and that I should have bought; a Brazilian D-45 that I tried in Tokyo last year – it’s gone now; also Paul Kossoff’s old sunburst Les Paul that came up for sale at Christie’s in 2000, which played as if I had owned it for years. It’s like meeting people - sometimes something just clicks and you keep thinking about them.

I must now also add Blackie to that list. To be perfectly honest, I had not been excited greatly about Blackie until recently, largely because Brownie was the guitar that produced that fantastic sound on the Howlin' Wolf London Sessions, the “Solo” album, Layla, Stephen Still's “Go Back Home”, etc. I wasn’t a great fan of the “Slowhand”/”Just One Night” era which, in my mind, is what Blackie stood for.

But it all changed when I was at Christie’s in London on one of the Crossroads Auction preview days and Blackie was pulled out of the glass case for a film crew. They were allowed to play the guitar when filming it and I started explaining to them how the top E string was almost dropping off from the fingerboard, which as I understood it, was one of the reasons why the guitar was retired.

Then the crew moved on to film the next sequence and I was left holding Blackie while they were interviewing. So I had a good long private conversation with this famous lady with a little triangular neck and a resonating voice. She turned out to be quite talkative and I was engrossed in my conversation with her like she was a long lost friend. Although I was playing acoustically, the crew filming the interview asked me to keep quiet from 10 meters away as the sound was leaking into their soundtrack! I was totally converted in that 20 minutes and now no other Stratocaster does it for me. Now I know what her previous owner saw in her. I was forever smitten with no way of relieving my desire. What am I to do?

Contact

Email: info@saiichi.com
Website: www.saiichi.com

Related Article

Sale of the Generation: Saiichi Sugiyama on the 1999 Eric Clapton Christie's Crossroads Auction