Building A Website For Late '70's Strat Dating Info Options

[Matt]

Hi. With the rising popularity and collectability of late 70's Strats comes the risk of getting duped. Getting a fake, or 'parts caster', or simply a miss-dated guitar due to lack of knowledge.

I am starting a site to aid in dating these guitars. I hope to load it with info from all over the net, mainly by talking to people on forums like this to create a data base of knowledge to aid the purchaser in their quest for an affordable vintage Strat.

I have actually witnessed, in the same week, two people on another forum buy '79 Strats that turned out to be '80 & '81 models, and I myself am the proud owner of what I thought was a '79, but recent findings leed me to believe it is a very early '80 (albeit still proud ).

Here is the site so far. It's a subdomain off my main website for violins I make as a hobby. I've only picked up HTML through fiddling around with making my own sites, so it isn't too flashy.

Any info that I can add, even pictures I will be looking for soon, is appreciated.

Thanks.

Dating Late '70's Fender Stratocasters

[Stratus]

Nice site! Lots of usefull information...

[Troels]

Hi. With the rising popularity and collectability of late 70's Strats comes the risk of getting duped. Getting a fake, or 'parts caster', or simply a miss-dated guitar due to lack of knowledge.

I am starting a site to aid in dating these guitars. I hope to load it with info from all over the net, mainly by talking to people on forums like this to create a data base of knowledge to aid the purchaser in their quest for an affordable vintage Strat.

I have actually witnessed, in the same week, two people on another forum buy '79 Strats that turned out to be '80 & '81 models, and I myself am the proud owner of what I thought was a '79, but recent findings leed me to believe it is a very early '80 (albeit still proud ).

Here is the site so far. It's a subdomain off my main website for violins I make as a hobby. I've only picked up HTML through fiddling around with making my own sites, so it isn't too flashy.

Any info that I can add, even pictures I will be looking for soon, is appreciated.

Thanks.

Dating Late '70's Fender Stratocasters

Great site... but - there are quite many mistakes in there - and if the site shall be usefull then someting must be cleared up.

For instance: The squared PU routes ended around 1974 not 1978 (the body shown as a 1977 body is typical left over body from early 70s - there are many of those even 1979 Antiqua guitars with 1972-1974 body styling). Also the control cavity routing was changed between late 1976 and early 1977 - the long route from the bridge pick up to the last tone control became one long arch instead of a two straigh lines with an angle. The dollar sized depression in the bridge PU route was a late 1977 to 1978 thing (on Telecasters too) and disappeared finally with the Smith Strat in early 80s. Also from 1976 to 1977 the neck pocket with prolonged extra circularly routed corners was introduced - probably in an attemp to make a tighter neck fit at the end of the neck.

I've seen many Strats (and owned many) from the 70s - but NEVER met one with a sloppy neck joint... som why ad to that myth ?

The round stamps in neck pockets and neck heels help to date 70s Strats... The first tipe F/R/R - INSP style appeared first in 1975 and were by the end of 1978 replaced by the smaller FFR (figure) lasting thruout the 70s - these stamps help dating for instance left over bodies and/or necks shipped later in the 70s (that's how I can see that your shown 1977 Straty is a left over body - as the body route patterns changed dramatically from 1976 to 1977 (check the spring cavity as well - a 1976 guitars has sharp corners closest to the trem block whereas as 1977 has rounded corners (this style was heavily copied by Tokai but slighty smaller radiaes...).

From the mid 70s and out all neck pockets was stamped with the name of the person who made body it... and so are the necks. These names are helpfull as well when dating these guitars. J. TORRES was a well known neck maker at Fender in the 70s. Ad to that the light blue chalk signs in the neck pockets, the position of the holes drilled for the "finishers handle" - and other marks - alle very helpfull when trying to find out what you've got. Any marks in 70s Fender guitars can play a role in dating an instrument - I would say.

Finally I'll mention the general changes in body outline on Strats after 1976. The basse side body horn are significantly thicker (peaking in the early 80s) and the the angle of the horn where it takes of from the waist up to the top of the horn are slightly higher making for a - logically - a slightly bigger bass side cut away... All Strats from 1977 to almost mid 80s have this body shape. Strats from early 70s are almost always - no matter the finish - made from two pieces of ash - a wide one including control cavity and neck pocket and a smalle one - but longer including the body bass side horn. After 1976 three piece (of equal wide) bodies are most common.

I'm not sure of the big letters either - but it's NOT finish codes. Unfinished bodies was sorted into three categories - which was rubber stamped or written with a marker in the neck PU cavity or in the neck pocket beside (right or left) of the round tilt plate. "1" was natural finish (earlier guitars was stamped with a big red or green stamp saying - NATURAL, "2" was for sunburst, trans red and brown (mocca) and "3" was for solid colors (even you can't see the "3" as it was solid colors . I think the big letters in the neck pocket could have someting to do with neck pocket wide - as they used to make guitars with different neck wides - actually recognized by letters.

All figures in the molds (tremolo block and sadles for instance) are part numbers corresponding to stock lists.

Mid 70s guitars did NOT have white pick guards and other parts black. They had black pick guards and other parts white... a significant difference!

Regards
Troels

This post has been edited by Troels: Oct 15 2007, 10:04 AM

[jsegel]

this is cool. i'm wondering what it means to the collector/player if a '79 strat is actually from 1980 or 1981... is that bad? is it worth much less?
i ask out of personal greed of course.
about 4 years ago when i lost my '71 to thieves i searched for a nice 70s replacement, and in sort of a hurry before a tour i spent $1800 at guitar satan in san jose on a nice blonde '79 (only 8lbs!)
only recently have i looked inside to discover it's actually from feb 1981!
should i complain to guitar satan?

[ASTROMAN]

Very informative ! Nice job !

[Mutato]

Hi,

This has been very helpful for me. I used it to verify a '74-75 strat I recently bought.

Mutato

This post has been edited by Mutato: May 28 2009, 02:47 PM

Attached File(s)

 1975_Oly_Strat.jpg ( 66.55K ) Number of downloads: 4

 

[svein]

Hi. With the rising popularity and collectability of late 70's Strats comes the risk of getting duped. Getting a fake, or 'parts caster', or simply a miss-dated guitar due to lack of knowledge.

I am starting a site to aid in dating these guitars. I hope to load it with info from all over the net, mainly by talking to people on forums like this to create a data base of knowledge to aid the purchaser in their quest for an affordable vintage Strat.

I have actually witnessed, in the same week, two people on another forum buy '79 Strats that turned out to be '80 & '81 models, and I myself am the proud owner of what I thought was a '79, but recent findings leed me to believe it is a very early '80 (albeit still proud ).

Here is the site so far. It's a subdomain off my main website for violins I make as a hobby. I've only picked up HTML through fiddling around with making my own sites, so it isn't too flashy.

Any info that I can add, even pictures I will be looking for soon, is appreciated.

Thanks.

Dating Late '70's Fender Stratocasters

Hei Matt,
thank you for making this page for us who likes/collects/plays '70 strats. Im a 70 model my self and the interest in strats began as a kid, there was a guy who owned a '71 Oly strat in my little home town (I believe he still have it... ), and I remember I decided to get one my self when I grew up

I just wanted to add a few little things to your document.

you state on pot codes: "Be aware of another code found on these pots, 013446. It has nothing to do with the date as I've seen the exact same code of pots ranging from 1977 - 1981 strats".

This number is not to be ignored as it is very important when deciding if its a genuine Fender part. Its a part number code. Fender had a part number for each and every component on their instruments.
I quote from Fender Potentiometer Codes by James W. Shine, Jr. "Fender did not stray from this code system, so if you are being sold a set of pot's with weird part numbers not following any fender system, be aware!"

There is also some people that get a strat with another color under the original color. This is not necessarily a later refinish, it can be a fender re paint in a custom color. I have a '73 strat in black where you can see the sunburst under the paint. There is a great article on this here: http://www.provide.net/~cfh/fenderc.html go down the page to: Fender Primer Undercoats and Sunburst Undercoats

There are also some early '70 strats that have black back pick ups instead of the date stamped grey backs. These are usually left overs from '60 strats that fender put into later models. It seems to occur in strats up to the staggered pole line in later 1974. So if you have these pick ups in your strat, dont swap them for grey backs!! I almost did, but luckily I checked up the subject before doing a mistake.


svein

Attached File(s)

 73pot_withpartCode.jpg ( 259K ) Number of downloads: 4
 blackBacks.jpg ( 223.47K ) Number of downloads: 4

 

[cronos]

As soon as your site is finished, please let me know so I can link to it from Strat Central (my Strat site at strat-central.com). If you need hosting, I can set that up for you (for free). If you need to register a domain, I can set that up for you too (for US$ 10 per year).
Good luck on perfecting and extending that site!

[Matt]

Hi cronos, the site has pretty much been done for a long time now, with a few minor updates well over a year ago. If you would like to host the site on your Strat-Central webpage that would be a good idea. The strat site is just an offshoot of my main website, that explains the "welshviolin" part of the web address. I no longer have much interest in either subject and therefore see no reason to keep paying for hosting and a domain. I may let it expire when it comes due next spring so if the information is to remain available it will need to be moved. I would prefer it to be moved and saved as I get a fair bit of traffic to the 70s Strats webpage. Let me know what you think. I would give you permisson to take any all information and photos off the 70s Strats webpage and upload it to your own. I have updated my email settings on this forum and you may email if you wish to discuss this further.

Matt